User talk:Stevertigo/Archive 5

In case you don't see the message at Simple Wikipedia; I have created a page about Volapük, but I can't make the title have the ü in it, so had to put it at Volapuk. Is there any way of using special characters here? Also, is there a way of adding links to here from other Wikipedias in the same way other inter-language links are added? Angela 17:01, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the international base for it really. I think it could just be confusing to browse around and find yourself on a page in a language you don't speak. I recently discovered the Interlanguage Wikipedia, and I think this has some overlap with Simple English. Because it's written in something that is no-one's native language, it tends to be fairly simple anyway. At the moment, I don't see any advantages of merging any of the small Wikipedias. Do you think anyone does use the simple English as a basis for translations? Or would they just go to a Wikipedia in their preferred language and simplify/translate it themselves? Angela 22:47, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Thanks. I didn't know you could link to Simple like you could the other languages. Angela 03:21, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for changing the diatribe masquerading as the Slogan 'Zionism is racism' article into something more bearable to read. 213.73.161.245 22:39, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC)

yeah, well -- I actually read it -- thats what motivated the change. Maybe if you want to stick around, you should get a login name -a "face" if you will -- that others may identify well enough to talk to. :) --S--

hey stevevertigo, please see my response User:Kenneð

I found some notes you made on Turkish_atrocities_against_Kurds which had been blanked by Danny and thought it was best in your user space until finished. I hope you don't mind that I moved it here. Angela

I'm not completely sure it needs it as the edit war isn't huge compared to others going on. However, I think the content needs to be discussed by those interested so a decision on what to include may be agreed upon rather than unilateral deletions occuring over and over. Please try to state your views on the talk page so RK may respond to those. Just a reminder that you should not edit the page again until it is unprotected.

What a load of nonsense to be reading at 4.30 in the morning. Ang.

I know, I know. I thought I should write something constructive though as it can't stay protected forever. It's too late to sleep now anyway. I need to be in London in 4 hours. Angela 04:09, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)

At Talk:Seven Failures Before The Taking of Vicksburg, you say

This kind of detail for a historical event is awesome. Im glad to see it. -戴&#30505sv 19:26, Aug 14, 2003 (UTC)

'Tain't nunthin'. I probably said more at Revolution of 1848, that sent some of my German ancestors to this country. I think it more worthwhile to say a lot of a few things that just writing teeny articles about a lot of things -- though that's what I have mostly done. -- User:dino.

You're nominating RK??????? I haven't been following the Arab-Israeli edit wars here on Wikipedia too closely, but aren't you the last person one would expect to nominate RK? Not that I have any opinion on that matter; I'm just a little bewildered. 172 19:31, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Hey, it's one way to discredit the very concept of a sysop. Probably the best way.

• RK1: How long do you feel the page should be protected? Do you intend to note on the talk page what you want the outcome to be?
• RK2: Why do you wish to "to discredit the very concept of a sysop" and how do you think bizarre nominations will help that? Angela
• 172: Ok, maybe the 'ignore it approach' isn't that useful. Jtdirl's comments eariler on the de-adminship page made sense that perhaps this approach can be useful. For me, the issue is nothing to do with the Nostrum palava, it was more one of general approach and the refusal to deal with anyone but those who agree with him.
• Allusion: I reverted your edit. Reasons discussed on talk page. Taoster has made 4 edits to it since I reverted. WP:DBTN
• WP:WINAD: Doesn't this article state you shouldn't be doing what you suggested I do (create internet slang articles)?
• Advice: I took your advice to stay away from WP for 12 hours! Ok, not through choice, through being stuck in a bookshop all day with no access to a computer.

Anyway, be nice to the hyena. Angela

What do you mean that you wouldn't talk if you were me? I was just curious since I heard that you and RK are often in conflict. 172 22:55, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I mean people in glass houses should not throw stones. -戴&#30505sv 23:08, Aug 15, 2003 (UTC)

What do you mean? How am I in a glass house and at whom am I throwing stones? I'm a professional academic and active contributor who was a trusted user until last night frankly, when one vandal started personally attacking me. So I think that if this matter is dealt with fairly, it will be decided that my approaches to vandalism have, by and large, been warranted. And how am I throwing stones? I wasn't criticizing you or RK in that context. 172 23:15, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)

{Observation:Easily provoked, and unwilling to let things be} -戴&#30505sv 23:25, Aug 15, 2003 (UTC)

re: your user page - Not sure how to leave one of those. Do you perhaps mean message? Angela

lol

I've just seen your post to the intlwiki mailing list. I can't reply there as I'm not currently subscribing to it and I've forgotten my password to re-subscribe, so I'll reply here instead. Feel free to copy this to the list if you want to.

I disagree with creating articles which consist only of interlanguage links and I tend to delete such pages from the English Wikipedia. It wastes someone's time if they follow a link thinking they will get some useful information, only to find a blank page. It may be useful for those who want to write articles in other languages, but frustrating and confusing for those trying to read Wikipedia. Linking should occur after the article is written, not before. Angela 21:59, 16 Aug 2003 (UTC)

But a stub can contain useful information. IL links do not. They only tell you that there may or may not be some info in some other language somewhere. A blank page is confusing. A page with only a little bit of info is not. Angela

Hovering over links is only useful if you are in the encyclopedia of a language you don't read. Why you be there in the first place? If you are in en: then a link which tells you the page title in Arabic won't help.

I agree with linking the WPs together, but linking up a load of blank pages is not useful. The red links are there to tell you a page does not exist. If you put a link in, it makes it look like the page does exist.

re: load this talk up to the mail... I don't mind. re: mail Walter. I already clicked the "send me a new password button" but it hasn't done anything. I shall do as you suggest.

Angela

Thanks for the comment. It was appreciated. Re RK, I have no problem with the idea, but I'm a bit uneasy about the fact that he does push a very strong POV which he believes passionately is NPOV and I wonder if he would have the restraint not to use the powers unwisely. But I'm not saying no. I'd have to listen to the general opinions and am open to the idea if he can allay my worries as to how he might use his powers. lol FearÉIREANN 23:10, 16 Aug 2003 (UTC)

What point are you trying to prove by nominating RK for Admin? All it will cause is a MAJOR flame war. Please stop this silliness now; RK has never expressed interest in being an Admin, so why the hell do you want to put him, and the rest of us, through what will be a very unpleasant experience? Don't you have better, more productive things to do? --mav

Note to everyone re: RK for sysop. I am sincere in my efforts. I ask that you be more hopeful than doubtful, and spread the word to everyone to whom I did not deliver my message today. -Respectfully, Stevertigo

I back it up.

Thanks Dante -- Going to bed. نم نوما مريحا، كلّ شخص.

Just got over a power failure and I'm on my way to a conference till Thursday night. It may be a good idea, though I really have to think about it. If the nomination still stands when I get home, I will consider it seriously. Ma'asalaam. Danny 10:17, 17 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I am trying to think positively about the idea. I shall wait to see what RK says before commenting. He may not want it anyway. Angela 11:34, 17 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Sure. But do me a favor: when the time comes, state your reasons as clearly and fully as possible, and provide as much context as you feel necessary, at the outset. Thanks, Slrubenstein

()? マイカル 19:01, Aug 17, 2003 (UTC)

Hello sv. What do you mean when RK will be back ? Did he left ? If so, has he said he will only be back when a sysop ? What are your arguments for wanting him to be a sysop ? Really ? Anthère

Hi, just for the record I think RK would be a horrible, horrible, horrible sysop. Plays well with others? No. Understands NPOV and strives towards it? No. Feels persecuted and screams bloody murder at the drop of a hat? Yes. Koyaanis Qatsi 07:20, 18 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Posting falsehoods to the mailing list ought to disqualify anyone. See User_talk:RK/ban_Archive2. I certain second KQ's comments in this regard. But it's moot as he's turned it down. What's relevant is not to nominate any sysops who behave this way. EofT

Let's not gang up on RK. I know how it feels. Yesterday afternoon at my church, a discussion of Jews and anti-semitism arose. I felt considerably put on the spot (and even tongue-tied) when one member said, "Why do Jews cause so much trouble?" Even though he said later he was just kidding, I think the incident let me experience perhaps 3% of what RK feels all the time.

It's hard to be even-tempered when you feel everyone is out to get you. With over half of Europe's Jews massacred, and with Israel the target of three aggressive wars -- not to mention nearly 20 centuries of persecution (like the pogroms in Russia -- is it any wonder that a Jewish person might be a bit (shall we say) defensive?

Not an excuse. The Holocaust is not special - there were many other genocides in the 20th century and countries not practicing colonialism that got invaded. This isn't about being "defensive", this is about a life strategy and diplomatic strategy that cannot work - on any scale. EofT

If RK bothers you, just follow Uncle Ed's 3-part guide to WikiHarmony:

1. Leave him alone for a couple of days
2. Say something nice that shows you understand his point of view
3. Make a specific suggestion about improving the article involved.

--Uncle Ed 15:48, 18 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Sounds nice on paper, Ed, but I'm in more than one minority, so I have an idea of what RK is experiencing and I still think he tends towards overreaction and histrionics. ^_^ Koyaanis Qatsi 01:00, 19 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Let's see:

• Nobody is ganging up on RK. He picks a fight with lots of people who are involved in his pet articles. His opponents are often not even aware of each other. It's extremely dishonest of you to call it ganging up when in fact the numerous origins of the complaints make them have merit.
• Finding one kind of bigotry to be worse than another only because of who it is directed at (or who is doing the directing), IS ITSELF BIGOTED. People should only differentiate bigoted acts on the type of act; compare name-calling with genocide.
• As I don't believe in collective guilt, so I don't believe in collective victimhood. I certainly don't feel like I'm suffering for what might have happened to an ancient ancestor hundreds of years ago. Thus, RK does not deserve any more leeway in his behaviour. Who the participants are shouldn't count in discussions.
• Neither Zionism nor Israel is synonymous with Judaism.
• Israel the target of three aggressive wars? Spare me your ignorance.
• I'm not aware of any other Jew who finds him- or herself in the same position as RK does.
• Unless of course you consider 172 to be it, as he claims to be Jewish and has received some abuse... from RK. Doesn't he also deserve your support given your "philo-Semitism"? Or should we wait till RK calls him a "self-hater". I've seen it happen before.

Holding you in lower regards now, 213.73.161.245 21:05, 18 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Agreed on every single point. EofT

Now that RK has rejected the nomination for sysop -- I am satisfied. I ran a sincere, and thoughtful pre-campaign for RK's sysopdom for reasons which Ive stated on the en: mailing list. Contrary to the naysayers (perhaps even including RK himself) RK would have made a fine sysop. If not then there would be no loss. It makes no reasonable sense to prejudice RK as a sysop -- or to prejudice my reasons for it. My reasons were sincere, with the ultimate goal that RK become a more welcome and active contributor. Erik and others have said that he would have zero chance of being elected -- why would it be wrong for me to campaign on his behalf? I dont care about "flame wars" -- if people are too incapable of handling their shit -- I cant be held responsible for that. One thing is certain -- sysopdom for RK would have made him a better contributor. That was my intent pure and simple.-戴&#30505sv 04:55, Aug 19, 2003 (UTC)

-S-

All of this is now academic. I hope things can now get "back to usual." -SV-

I don't trust either side, but through the analysis of both can one reach a truth (of some sort atleast) .... the "White House press" news and the "Communist news network" are both biased -- but admitting both sides seems as a NPOV (admitting only one or the other would seem a bias [IMO]) ... I do try to write my edits as NPOV (and will continue to endeavor to that end) ... I hope that I will achive this ... reddi 00:28, 20 Aug 2003 (UTC) "Whatever is begun in anger, ends in shame." — Benjamin Franklin

I should probably mention that I've left you a message at ar:. I have a tendancy to leave messages in obscure places that never get found. There's a vote for the name of the "village pump" at Simple too. Or at least there will be when anyone suggests some names to vote on. Angela 02:27, 20 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Regarding my "suspect" example of POV sources on Google News. The one I was thinking of was Arab News (state-run by Saudi Arabia government) at http://www.arabnews.com/ which is often very highly ranked in Google News, but is very opinionated and blatantly biased in their articles (which are often not marked as opinion or editorial pieces). Daniel Quinlan 03:19, Aug 20, 2003 (UTC)