Wikipedia talk:Etiquette/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions on Wikipedia:Etiquette. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

TheCunctator deleted:

We know all too well that we can't tell you what to do.

(Whether he was right or wrong to do so, in light of recent events, I don't know -- but I would like to at least keep a record here that the page once read that.) -- SJK

I think you're according Cunctator's edits far too much importance, Simon. --LMS

I have to disagree with this Q/A:

But I'm free to do whatever I please here. This is a wiki, right?

Well, you're free, yes. But we do have some community habits and standards,...

The only correct answer to this question is No, you're not free to do anything here; Wikipedia doesn't belong to you. This is something most people learn to deal with by the time they're seven years old or so, though some people clearly never learn. This server is the private property of Bomis, Inc., who graciously chooses to allow nearly everyone to do certain things that serve its goal of creating an encyclopedia. If you don't agree with their goals or they're methods, you can certainly discuss that with them, but if they make a decision it is theirs to make. If you can't support those goals, then go buy your own server. Bomis should be much clearer about this. --Lee Daniel Crocker

Is it just me, or does the Wikipetiquette page read like a page out of B. F. Skinner's notebook? ;-) --Stephen Gilbert

• Finally, As a Last Resort, when you've tried to work in a cooperative spirit and are not getting through, . . . there is one last thing you can do to improve the situation. Walk away. Yes, walk away. Just bookmark the page, and come back in a week or two. Ideologues tend to give up when the general consensus . . . proves too strong to override. Also, Wikipedia's . . . policy is supported and defended by many Wikipedians, so you don't have to singlehandedly uphold it. Attempting to do so sometimes just escalates the problem.

I consider the above-quoted passage to be very sound advice, but when it comes to quality control there are simply not enough people involved in the production of some Wikipedia articles to create a strong general consensus. Consequently, thoughtful contributors spend a great deal of time and energy responding to criticism and seeking a general consensus whereas amateurish contributors stubbornly defend (and restore) their mediocre work, ignoring or dismissing any and all criticism. Walking away is not a real solution, as it leaves the mediocre work intact and leaves the amateurish contributor in the position of blundering along to compromise the quality of other articles.

In more serious situations, the de facto solution employed by most rank and file Wikipedians who find themselves embroiled in a conflict seems to be an appeal to one of the Wikipedian sysops. This concerns me because I see it as the beginnings of a hierarchichal power structure being established at Wikipedia which will eventually be used to resolve even the pettiest of disputes. I would much rather see a group of rank and file Wikipedians involved in the mediation process with the Wikipedian sysops deferring to the judgment of said rank and file Wikipedians.--NetEsq

NetEsq, being myself a sysop, I see your point. Fortunately, most sysops are careful to solve disputes using their magic powers. Normally, we try to resolve by using the same possibilities that every logged in user has, which is basically editing, editing talk page, and expressing common sense. Only in extreme cases, we use the magic powers and f.e. protect a page that is the subject of an edit war or - in a very extreme case - block a user's IP if he repeatedly vandalises a page. Jeronimo

Walking away from a topic doesn't imply doing so permanently. Sometimes it gives you the opportunity to come back later with even better reasoned arguments. Your frustration is clear from some of the almost ad hominem comments that you make above.

We just had a situation where a sysop tried to use his sysop status to threaten someone with a ban. The community (Hmmm, I think I refered to that term at Talk:Law) was unanimous in its disapproval of the tactic, and he was experienced enough to get the message loud and clear. Appeal to Wikipedians in general is indeed more appropriate than appeal to sysops. The sysops are as much members of the community as the "rank and file". The appearance of a hierarchical structure is often innocently perpetuated by people who appeal to the structure that they perceive. Questions of this sort come up so frequently that going through them takes on the characteristics of a rite of passage.

Another factor in resolving edit wars may simply be that no available Wikipedian feels confident that he is competent enough to deal with the subject matter under debate. We already know that it takes no Wikipedians to change a light bulb because the room is bright enough already. Still a solitary fly who encounters an entire field of manure can only land at one spot. Eclecticology 18:08 Sep 6, 2002 (UCT)

I appreciate your considered responses, both of which acknowledge and address my concerns. To a certain degree I am anticipating problems which may or may not come into existence at Wikipedia because of my experiences with several other large scale projects which purport to be open communities until they encounter the "practical limitations" of openness. In other words, "if we have learned anything from history, it is that we have learned nothing from history."--NetEsq 11:24am Sep 6, 2002

There seem to be some opportunities for self promotion on Wikipedia. Is this totally frowned on or is it ok as long as it's not blatant? -- Anon

I'm not sure what sort of self-promotion you mean. Self-promotion articles are generally deleted pretty quickly - unless the article subject is one that actually deserves an encyclopaedia article. For example Daniel C. Boyer edits Wikipedia, but his article has endured because of his work outside Wikipedia. An article about me would quickly (and rightfully) be deleted. We have user pages for that :)

Similarly, an article on Google will endure, one on sannse.com wouldn't (especially as I haven't got round to using that domain name yet)

Another type of self-promotion I've seen, also quickly removed, is lots of links to a personal web-site. For example, someone added links to a travel web-site on all the country articles at one point, they weren't particularly useful and there is no reason for us to promote that site rather than others. But a link to wilwheaton.net on the Wil Wheaton article will be likely to stay -- sannse 19:34 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)

See also: wikipedia:responses to common objections. Martin 15:29 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

is it "Wikipetiquette" or "Wikiquette". The second sound somewhat funny for a French. May I suggest "Wiketiquette" ? Ericd 00:35, 20 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Oui quiquette ;o) hahaha, right, it's funny. Greudin

Oh oui... Oh oui.... Ericd 11:08, 18 July 2005 (UTC)