Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rocketry/Archive 1

The project needs alot of fleshing out. New members are welcome to add what they think is appropriate, just add a note to the talk page as to what you did and why. - enceladus

I added the stage names to the example table since it isn't clear where they go otherwise. I would suggest we just use the same table for the other two types of rockets. Just replace the "payload to XXX orbit" with "Payload to XXX miles". Of course, other interesting information exists for missiles which doesn't really apply to launch vehicles (ie: number deployed; dates of first, last deployment, and retirement of missiles; 'standard' warhead types and yield...). A different header background graphic might be in order, however. Audin 22:50, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Good ideas. Just had a thought with Russian missiles - do we use NATO names or the Russian names OR do we just have a row in the table for each? - enceladus

The aircraft Wikiproject has adopted a policy of de-emphasising NATO reporting names (and Allied reporting names for Japanese aircraft), as an sign of Neutrality. I suggest we do the same here --Rlandmann 00:02, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)

First have we decided what the articles would be titled? Saturn V, Saturn V rocket, Saturn V (rocket), Saturn rocket with sections of the article for different types, Saturn (rocket). Rmhermen 22:53, Dec 12, 2003 (UTC)

I vote for Saturn V (rocket), as the "rocket" part is not part of the item's proper name. Ideally I think mediawiki should strip the (...) part during rendering, but that will have to be taken up on the mailing lists. It's a hack, though, as we're trying to express categorization by using an extra piece in the title. Audin 23:26, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Yes, but Saturn V rocket does not imply that "rocket" is part of the name - if it were, the Wiki naming convention would be Saturn V Rocket. Lower-case "rocket" is just a descriptor, to which the parentheses really add nothing... --Rlandmann 00:02, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I think we should have a major article called for instance Saturn Rocket Family. This would work for basically ever type of rocket family - Soyuz, Delta, Titan, Atlas, Vostok, Voskhod etc as they were all basically of the same type just with extra strapons or whatever. In it would be basic coverage of the rockets that are found in that family. I think that each major rocket difference should have its own article. We probably don't need to split up the two and three stage versions of the Saturn V, but for the Atlas rocket, the Atlas V is absolutely nothing like the Atlas 2 for instance.

So to answer your question (;-) ) I think we should have a hierachy like:

• Saturn Rocket Family
  • Saturn I (rocket)
  • Saturn IB (rocket)
  • Saturn V (rocket)

Or

• Titan Rocket Family
  • Titan I (rocket)
  • Titan II (rocket) etc

-enceladus

Putting a parenthetical categorization in brackets in the article's title should only be done when necessary for disambiguation, when there are other articles in Wikipedia that would also fit under that title. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) and Wikipedia:Disambiguation#When_to_disambiguate, the latter specifically stating "Do not disambiguate, or add a link to a disambiguation page, if there is no risk of confusion." For something like Saturn V, there's nothing else in Wikipedia that would go by that name so I think it's inappropriate to put (rocket) in the title. Bryan 04:32, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

Since most rockets are not still in production, the dates they were produced or used should be in each article. Should it be in the text or the table? Rmhermen 22:58, Dec 12, 2003 (UTC)

I would like to see it in the table. But I have no problem if it is also mentioned in the text. I don't mind a bit of redundancy if it means someone can jump into an article and quickly find the bit of information they're looking for. Basically I think all basic facts and figures should be in the table for quick access. Explanation as to why those facts and figures are as they are should make up the body of the article. Audin 23:26, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)

We could maybe include the first launch (and the last launch for rockets that have ceased to be used) as well as the number of launches. For rockets that had low number of launches it would be possible to maybe include a table in the text of each launch (like Saturn V) but for the R-7 and its derivates with over 1600 launches, we could maybe just include important or historical launches. -enceladus

A word of caution I thought I add here. Although http://www.astronautix.com is good source of basic info, don't trust it for the numbers. Often info about rockets, stages and engines are erroneous and contradictory. For instance in the Saturn I article it talks of it having a launch capacity of such and such yet on one of the launches it put about double that number into orbit. -enceladus

I've created a table for the ICBM and filled it in with data for the Minuteman I ICBM. Seems to be a bit of uncertainty to values and different websites have different numbers. Table needs some work to make it better looking and also a new picture. Couldn't see things like ISP and we probably don't need it anyway as it means little no most people. Not sure what to do with the fuels though as for solid rockets its not a simple case of LOX. -enceladus

Something that needs to be discussed is the nomenclature for Saturn launch vehicles and specfically the stages. Personally I feel that the rocket should be the Saturn I (rocket) but the stage should be the S-I (rocket stage). This way there is no confusion in the writing where you would tend to use | to stop the bracketed disambiguation from appearing. I've rewritten the Saturn (rocket family) page to reflect this. - enceladus

I just put together List of rockets with all the articles and references to rockets that I could find on Wikipedia so we have an idea of the present state of the subject. I wasn't clear on the difference between missile and rocket for our project so some might need to be removed from the list. Rmhermen 23:55, Dec 17, 2003 (UTC)

I don't think that their really is any difference between the two, just basically whether it is primarily a weapon of war or something that you use to launch things into space. enceladus 1:09, Dec 18, 2003 (UTC)

Note, however, that in military usage there's a clear distinction between a rocket and a missile - a rocket being a simple unguided projectile. These really have more in common with a bullet than a space launch vehicle or ICBM... --Rlandmann 23:43, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I don't know why, but for me the header of the factbox is black text on black background with a few white dots. If I read the html source correctly the text is intended to be white, but at least in Mozilla 1.5 it shows black - which lacks a bit of contrast to be readable :-). andy 16:50, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Great, a rocket project! But -- why not call it WikiProject Rockets and Missiles, since that is the intent of the project. It's too bad to refer to rockets only, when missiles are a whole subject in itself. I would like to contribute to the missile part especially (though I'm interested in space travel and rockets as well -- honestly can't imagine how people manages not to be, but that's a common geek problem, I guess..). --Wernher 05:09, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

{{SampleWikiProject}}

Hi. The example rocket table links to TLI, however this is now a redirect to Transport Layer Interface, and I suspect that isn't what's meant :) Presumably the table should link to something else (ie, what TLI stands for) and TLI should become a disambig page. Unfortunately I don't know what "TLI" is so I can't do that myself... — Lady Lysine Ikinsile 10:49, Jun 14, 2004 (UTC)